Interview With Greg Puciato on Spylacopa

Spylacopa was formed by John LaMacchia in 2000, and was "simply inteded to be a conduit for his experimental and hypnotic compositions." The first Spylacopa release, "Collective Unconscious," appeared on Candiria's C.O.M.A. Imprint in 2002. A few years later in 2005, with the addition of The Dillinger Escape Plan's Greg Puciato and Jeff Caxide of Isis, another Spylacopa single, "The Duke," was released on Undreradar Records in a split with Young America. Releasing a few tracks spontaneously from that point onwards on their MySpace page, Spylacopa's forthcoming debut EP, which gets released on the 4th of November (a little under a month away from now, will be their first proper release.)

Featuring members of Candiria, Isis, The Dillinger Escape Plan and Battle of Mice, it seems like this EP is going to be quite a treat. Indeed, the first two reviews of the forthcoming EP so far have been extremely positive. In addition, the track "Blodletting", which will appear on the EP, now available in streaming from Spylacopa's MySpace page, and prominently featuring Julie Christmas and Greg Puciato together on vocals, promises that the EP is going to be something special.

I spoke with Greg Puciato about the forthcoming EP, and we discussed, amongst other things, his feelings on the finished product, the recording and studio process and the United States Postal Service. Read the interview below:

According to your press release, Spylacopa was formed by John LaMacchia as a way of “exploring experimental and hypnotic compositions” while playing guitar in Candiria. How did other musicians, such as yourself, become involved in the project?

I was approached by John at the show Dillinger played for Tsunami relief at the Virgin Megastore in Times Square NYC(the show where the now infamous youtube headwalk took place). It was a very vague idea at that time, early 2005, and he mentioned that he wanted to release some music he had been working on, and asked if I would be interested in singing on a song or two. I agreed and then really nothing happened for a year because Dillinger was touring so heavily, and John was writing music, finding his voice for this project. In 2006 we really started to send ideas back and forth and realized that we really enjoyed working with one another and became very excited by the creative possibilities, and it became more than just one or two songs. I have no idea how Jeff from Isis or Julie became involved in their parts, John just reached out to various people he was interested in. I would love for that aspect to continue in the future, and I already have some great ideas for the next release as far as guestspots and so forth.

Spylacopa is an amazing prospect considering that the people involved in the project thus far are from extremely talented and critically acclaimed bands such as Isis, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Candria and Made Out of Babies. Considering everyone’s different backgrounds and experiences, how well did you all cooperate on the EP?

Well it was a slow process haha, we didn't start to hit our stride until early 2007. We had demoed probably a full length's worth of songs before we really started to hit our mark, the result of which is this EP. Obviously Julie Christmas just came in and wrote and recorded her vocals for “Bloodletting”, and I actually am not sure which tracks Jeff Caxide played on or what riffs/parts he wrote, that was mostly between him and John in NYC, and I would get ideas as they came and work on them at home, then when I was ready I would go up and collaborate with John and record my parts. We keep an open table at all times, between John and I, its a really healthy creative relationship in my opinion, I just wish, as I do with Dillinger, that we could spend more time physically in the same place as it would make things run much faster! But it is what it is.

Work started on the EP in 2006. How would you describe the song writing process for it?

Well like I said above, we leave it pretty open. Right now me and John are very on the same page it seems in terms of where we see this going and what works and what doesn't, what fits and what doesn't. John for the most part wrote all of three songs musically, and I wrote two songs musically, and then I wrote my lyrics, Julie wrote hers, etc. There is no ego in this band in terms of “I'm the songwriter, I'm the music writer”. It's a totally open forum. If an idea is great it's great. John is a much better guitar player than I am from a technical standpoint, but we are both competent with midi and electronics/programming etc, so if he comes up with a great guitar part or I come up with a cool riff or chord progression, and we both can tell it feels right, we use it. If he comes up with a great vocal melody or phrase, I use it. We've both been in bands for a long enough time, we're not kids starting out trying to prove to ourselves and each other that we can do everything on our own and don't have anything to gain from one another.

What about the recording and studio process?

The recording process was very spread apart largely because of the Dillinger touring schedule. We only had time to record here and there. So we did it whenever we could. John lives only a few blocks from the studio so he was always way ahead of me in the process.

In January this year you posted the news that you headed into Sweet Fire Studios to do the final mixing. Would you account the fact that the people involved in Spylacopa have been busy with their own bands and touring schedules for the reason that the EP has taken so long?

Exactly. I mean it took time because of my schedule with Dillinger like I said, but also because from a timing standpoint it didn't make sense for us to release it right in the beginning or middle of the Ire Works touring cycle either.

To what extent did specific members of the project have an involvement with the song writing and recording processes? How much of an involvement did you have in it?

Of this particular batch of songs, I wrote the music for two, John wrote the music for three, and I sing on all four that have lyrics.

Were there any artists or musicians that particularly inspired what you have done with Spylacopa?

Ehhh the thing about inspiration for me is that it comes from so many places now that I can't really pin down exactly where things come from, which is a good thing! You just hope that whatever comes out of you works well with what the other person is contributing, and if it feels forced, you find someone else to work with! John and I figured out pretty early that we had a good chemistry together. He is a really dynamic player and listens to a lot of music, and also allows himself musically to be influenced by life in general and things other than music, which is important to me, a real artist, not just a guy who practices shredding or mimicking other artists all the time. He has real soul in his writing and playing. He plays a couple of guitar solos that I was really blown away by, not just in terms of technicality but in terms of composition and feel. I would say my influences are more emotion and experience based than musical, not just in writing lyrics but also in writing music, vocal delivery, etc. I feel things more than I think about them, from an artistic standpoint at least. I don't hear a song and think to myself "ok I have to sing notes in this scale" or "this part would sound great if I sang like Eddie Vedder", hahaha, I just try to let things be as natural and without the obstruction of overthinking as possible. Thinking and learning and absorbing, the mental aspect of music, that should happen first, at a different time. When it comes time to write I think it's best to just let it rip and trust and hope that you have the right tools in your corner, that you learned the right things, that you came prepared. That's something I learned from Ben Weinman more than anyone, to do your thinking beforehand, and then when its time to write, just feel. On Miss Machine I almost gave myself a stroke from overthinking everything, sometimes rewriting things forty times only to realize the first or second time was the best. Now that I've learned to separate inhaling from exhaling so to speak, its a much more enjoyable and organized process.

How do you feel with the finished product, are you pleased with it?

So happy with it. Mike Barille did a great job engineering it and getting great tones(which is hard to tell from the myspace stream I know!). The songs themselves, the packaging, the whole vibe, I'm happy with. It feels great to be putting something out that we are proud of and feel attached to and excited about, something that doesn't have a history before it hanging over our heads. Even though we come from particular backgrounds and people may have preconceived notions about us, from Dillinger and Candiria. That may think that John and I sit down and the first thing that comes out is polyrhythms and “math” metal haha, its really far from that. We really feel like we have a completely open canvas and infinite colors to paint with so to speak, so its a great feeling. We cover a lot of territory in these five songs, and didn't paint ourselves into any corners, which is really important to us. I feel like if the next release was some crushingly heavy album, or an instrumental soundtrack, or ambient or rock or whatever, it would make sense now. If we're smart though we'll be writing country songs and singing about fucking and drinking beer on a farm or whatever. That's where the meal ticket in the US is hiding. Right over there under the tractor.

How do you think the EP will be received?

Probably through the US Postal Service, maybe through Itunes. Seriously though, I think that people who care about our previous bands will be happy, they seem to be growing with us, and especially for me personally, Dillinger fans that liked Ire Works I think will really like this. I really think we are offering together something that is timeless and not tied down to any current trend or time period, it doesn't sound time stamped to me at all. These songs could have been written in 1993 or they could have been written in 2020.

How did you got about deciding to release the EP on Rising Pulse Records?

Rising Pulse is John's label that he is gonna be putting this out through, and regardless if the next release comes out on a larger label it will still carry this imprint. Rising Pulse was a better name than Rising Penis. Although I think they usually go hand in hand. Maybe our publishing name should be Rising Penis, that way it's listed as Rising Pulse/Rising Penis. Then we could just shorten it and call it Cialis. Then we'd really get the attention of the older fans.

Is the EP getting released on multiple formats as previously mentioned?

Yeah, we'll be doing some cool packaging stuff. I really want this project, as far as the physical realm is concerned, to stay fairly exclusive. There is no point in putting out infinite copies of a boring cd package. I'd rather make a really cool CD that only has like a thousand tangible copies, and 200 7 inches, and then have it all be digital online after that. CDs and and records and any physical manifestation of a recording seem to me to be going the way of the dinosaur for the general public, they are just for collectors and people who still really appreciate the art of a release, which is a small group. I think if you concentrate on making everything really awesome, then the people who find themselves unable to get the cd or the record, because no more copies exist, find themselves wishing they could, and they understand and have a better appreciation for the whole piece.

Who is doing the artwork for the EP? How did they come about doing it?

Not many people know this, but John is a really good visual artist as well! We originally were going to get someone else to do it, but then I was hanging out at John's apartment, and he has all these really cool drawings and art hanging on the walls, really unique looking, but all very consistent, you could tell they were by the same person. I asked him who did them and he was like “me!”, and I was just like man you have to do something with this, you have to do the art for this band, the more things that we can self contain the better, and who better to know what the visual feel should be than someone in the band? It eliminates having to filter your vision through someone elses interpretation if you can just do it yourself. He has a great eye for aesthetics whether it be drawn by hand, computer imagery, or photography.

Also in your press release for Spylacopa, John LaMacchia mentioned that there is the possibility for Spylacopa to perform live. Considering the busy schedules of the musicians involved in the project, how strongly a possibility do you think that there is for live Spylacopa shows to materialize?

Very strong. We have booking agents for the US and for the rest of the world. I gonna say that it will definitely happen.

Do you have anything more planned for Spylacopa in the near future?

Just getting this out, writing another one or a full length, seeing what makes sense for us, what fits. I'm not viewing this so much as a side project for me as it is just a different outlet. Obviously Dillinger is the bigger of the two, but creatively I don't really see a difference in terms of how exciting or fulfilling they are to me.

discuss this

Spreading Like Wings Interviews:

• Greg Puciato of Syplacopa/The Dillinger Escape Plan
  
• J.R. Hayes of Pig Destroyer
• Ben Weinman of the Dillinger Escape Plan

Grab this cool Spylacopa widget in anticipation of the release:

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Spreading Like Wings Interviews: J.R. Hayes of Pig Destroyer

In May this year fellow Relapse record colleagues Pig Destroyer teamed up with The Dillinger Escape Plan, Into Eternity, Mayhem and At The Gates for the Extreme The Dojo 20 Japanese Tour. Amongst other things, I spoke with vocalist J.R. Hayes about his experience on that tour and the reception of their latest record Phantom Limb, which was released June last year on Relapse to an extremely favorable reception.

How was touring with The Dillinger Escape Plan recently? Did you find it enjoyable?

Yeah, those guys are cool. Even though we've played together a few times over the years, I'd never really hung out with them, so I didn't know what to expect. They were very gracious. Plus, they're always fun to watch live. The stage is their personal jungle gym.

You have released quite a lot of your material on Relapse Records. What is you relationship with them (and record labels in general) like?

It's great. They don't pressure us too much, which I appreciate. They let us take our time so we can make everything exactly the way we want. Then, when we finally get a record done, they promote the hell out of it. No complaints, really.

What do you think about bands like Radiohead or Nine Inch Nails who are self-releasing their albums?

Good for them. Personally, I like having a label, 'cause they're the ones that do all the dirty work involved in promotion. Fuck that shit. I don't want anything to do with that. I just want to concentrate on writing and playing. It's kind of interesting though, how people can make records and then have them available to the public pretty much instantly. In my experience, it usually takes several months from the time the record's in the can for it to finally hit the streets.

Phantom Limb is an extraordinary album that “sees the band display more ebullient and straight-ahead sensibilities.” (Rock-A-Rolla) What were your intentions for this record as you headed into the studio?

We just wanted to avoid the "concept album" nonsense this time and write the best songs we could, so each one could stand alone as well as being part of the whole. And of course, we wanted to make it brutal.

How would you describe your song-writing process for Phantom Limb?

It was more efficient than usual. We're kind of used to writing and recording simultaneously, but this time we had everything written and polished before we even set foot in the studio. Having all that extra time to tweak the songs was awesome.

Do you think the recording and studio process for Phantom Limb is consistent with what you have done in the past, or were trying to tread new ground?

Most of the time we record our own shit, but this time we wanted to venture into a "real" studio...mostly for the sake of the drums...the drum sounds have kind of been a thorn in our side the last couple records.

The overall reception to Phantom Limb has been extremely favorable. What do you account for the success of the new record?

Some hard work and inspiration from us...some hard work from Relapse...and of course, the support of our fans. It's a team effort.

How did you go about selecting John Dyer Baizley to do the artwork for the new record?

I really dug his art for the first Baroness record, I loved the psychedelic aspect of his style and the vibrant colors he uses. The "terrifyer" art is very stark and bare...so I wanted something with some more depth this time. Something that would draw you in.

Scott Hull has mentioned visual artist Matthew Barney as having an influence on his music. Do you share Scott’s admiration?

I'm not as familiar with his work as Scott is, but I do appreciate his sense of grandeur. He comes up with some epic, breathtaking visuals.

What current bands interest and excite you?

Pygmy Lush, Weekend Nachos, Plague Bringer, Endless Blockade, and even though they're not new...Rotten Sound's new album slays everything.

What’s next for Pig Destroyer?

Hopefully we'll find time to write a couple grindcore songs between all the shots of vodka.



Pig Destroyer will commence an Australian and New Zealand tour this October thanks to the great booking agent/record label Heathen Skulls (of Grey Daturas fame).

If you've enjoyed this interview then please:



Discuss here.

Spreading Like Wings Interviews:

Ben Weinman of The Dillinger Escape Plan
J.R. Hayes of Pig Destroyer

Full UVTV Video Up Now *Updated*

The full UVTV video of The Dillinger Escape Plan live in concert (pro-shot footage) is now up. You can access it through the UVTV podcast, or you can watch it below. Note: the video is up on a "very fast server and will work better than uploading somewhere else."



Edit: Unfortunately, the videos have been taken off YouTube due to Copyright Infringement. There is still a slightly better quality clip of "Lurch" on DEP's Facebook page.

Also, if you want to you can download the concert from this location (you can download it without any worry).

Discuss here.

SLW Interview with Ben

Ahmad and I had been organizing an interview with Ben Weinman of DEP, and sometime on Monday/Tuesday, we finally got it happening. Ahmad (A.K.A. Buttons) spoke with Ben covering some interesting points on quite a few different topics.

You can read the transcript of the interview below, or alternatively listen to it via the player that follows. Many thanks to Ben for his time, and to Ahmad for kicking ass beyond the call of duty.

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An Interview With Ben Weinman of The Dillinger Escape Plan

Ben Weinman is best known for being the sole original remaining member of U.S. band The Dillinger Escape Plan (TDEP/DEP). The band, commonly known to have given birth to the genre "mathcore", a term that nearly fits, are renown for the extreme complexity of their music, the hardcore intensity of their live performances and the diversity in sound. Ben states that "[he] was pretty much the main song-writer from the start", but emphasizes that other members of the band contribute creatively in different ways. Not where it's at the point where people engage in heated arguments, but with the members participating positively and working towards progression as a whole.

Spreading Like Wings caught Ben while DEP were on tour in Belgium, "home of the waffles", though Ben finds the waffles over there to be too sugary. Ahmad ran through the questions, and I wrapped it all up.

--Adrian

I. "The important thing for Dillinger is to keep moving forward and progressing."

Ahmad: Since you're the only [original] remaining member of the band [and there have been numerous] changes of the line-up, has [this] really changed the direction of the band, or it's sound? Or do people just assimilate to what Dillinger is already?

Ben: Well, I mean, that's a good question. You know, Greg [Puciato’s] been in the band for a good amount of time-- a really long time at this point--and Liam [Wilson] was in the band a little bit longer than that, even, so most people that even know our band at this point, or really care about our band, are people that have only seen us with Greg and Liam, you know?

As far as when we first started, and the ideas we first started with... I don't know. I think I was pretty much the main song-writer from the start. And so, as far as the ideas we start with and the direction we go in, musically things have pretty much stayed the same.

Obviously, changing drummers was something we thought was going to be really difficult--and it was difficult--because of the fact that Chris was such an important part of our sound. But the truth is that drums don't write songs. Dillinger obviously, and what we do, involves a really great drummer. But there are a lot of really great drummers and we found one and Gil's assimilated to our sound and added some new things. The important thing for Dillinger is to keep moving forward and progressing. And that's what I wanted to do, to keep writing songs and surrounding myself in people that are adding to that vision and are pushing it further. And that's what we've done. I think it's just a bit of a positive thing.

Ahmad: I have a question sort of related to that: Lots of times when you're a fan of a band, I don't like Metallica, but say if you're a fan of the Metallica of the 80s and they turn into what they are now. Lots of people shout "sell out" and they don't like the new stuff. How do you feel about that. Because something like Under the Running Board and now Ire Works are not really the same album [with] different influences and whatnot. How do you approach that?

Ben: Obviously, when we first started, our motivations have been in some ways the same, in some ways different. You can't help but change throughout your life. I started this band 11 years ago, I was just a kid. So, obviously when we first started, I never even thought anyone would even like the band. My goal was to play in front of anyone. We could play a show -- that was a success. If I could play a show on the weekend and go back to school and do my homework and move on with my life, that was successful.

[There was] this idea that there was this sound inside our heads and inside my head, and we all decided to to create this, that we need that [which] we thought that was missing from our collection that we really wanted to hear.

And it was an amalgamation of what was going on, the bands that we were playing in, and what was missing in the little scene we were in. And that's what we did. And as we started to move forward and things started to change, and it started to become, "well, there's enough demand to go on tour", "there's enough demand where there’s people who know our songs when we go on show" and stuff like that.

There have been a lot of changes in attitude. When we first started, I don't even think I ever really played notes on the guitar. All I did was throw the guitar around. I remember playing shows for 10 people and barely playing the guitar. And then it got to the point where people knew our songs, and they absolutely expected to hear the songs that they knew and they liked, and I was like "Wow, we better start to be more professional and playing this for real". And so then the stage show picked it up and that way when we started to perform the songs for real and what we're doing and caring about sound. I mean, I didn't even use equipment. I'd show up to a show and ask the band if I could borrow their amp. I didn't even have an amp when we first started. I'd pretty much break a guitar every show and then on the way to the next show we'd stop at any shitty music store and I'd be like "What's the cheapest guitar that you have?" and it used to be some used guitar with stickers on it because everybody buys a guitar and thinks it be easy and then sells it back to the store, you know? [Laughs] It's usually covered in horrible stickers and things like that. And I would buy that guitar and play that at the next show. I used to carry around my pick-up, a good pick-up and put it in the guitar every show. Just get any guitar. And so I mean, things have changed a great deal just on the level of professionalism.

And then as time's gone by we've gotten older and it's like "Wow", you know. Like now, all of a sudden, people expect us to sound a certain way. When we started, people kind of shunned us because we didn't sound like the other bands and now, all of a sudden, people want us to sound like ourselves. And so I'm like, "How can we sound like ourselves?". I mean, we determine our sound, and not you. So we've just always tried to continue to write music that we want to hear. Just like day one. And try to present it in the most professional way possible once we do it, and if you like it, you do, if you don't, you don't.

II. The ‘Dillinger Gang’: Changes in Line-Up

Ahmad: Speaking of the band, you guys formed in 1997, correct?

Ben: Yeah

Ahmad: Everybody knows you've had about 10 different members. Besides Chris [Pennie], because I think you guys don't talk to him yet.

Ben: We've actually had 11 different member changes

Ahmad: 11?

Ben: I just figured that out the other day; 11 member changes in 11 years.

Ahmad: I guessed that number actually!

Ben: That's pretty good. [Laughs]

Ahmad: Besides Chris, how many of the guys do you still talk to?

Ben: I talk to every single person who's ever been in this band, pretty much, except for Chris. And we're good friends with everybody. We're all still really good friends. Almost everybody who's been a part of this band whether they've worked with us, been a crew guy or played with the band or whatever, we're still friends and we still consider them a part of kind of the Dillinger Gang, you know? But the Chris situation was so bizarre. And that was such a bitter situation. And unfortunately that did not paint out in the same way.

Ahmad: Aren't you guys playing Download and so is he [Chris]?

Ben: I think so, I don't know if it's the same day or not.

Me: Oh, yeah I forgot. It's like a three day festival.

Ben: Yeah. But if it is, I'm sure he'll do everything in his powers to avoid me.

Me: Are you going to fight him [Chris]? Please fight him.

Ben: [Laughs] No. I don't have any interest in that. Like, you know, it's funny because we actually practice at the same practice space. And most of the time we're not home at the same times because he's busy touring with Coheed and we're busy touring and stuff like that, but one day we went there and he was there and the guys went down the stairs and saw him, and actually Gil [Sharone] saw him and talked to him. They talked, you know. And I guess he asked if I was there and he was like "Oh, he's coming down" and all of a sudden he's found a back door and just escaped. [Laughs] I doubt that--if he has anything to with it--we'll ever talk.

Ahmad: How's Brian [Benoit]?

Ben: He's alright. I haven't talked to him in a while. He's moved back to Virginia. It's interesting because a lot of people consider Brian leaving the band, or having to leave the band, a new thing/sting. But the truth is he hasn't played with us for years. We had a fill-in guitar player for like 2 or 3 years. But we never announced officially that he was out of the band because we hoped he'd get better and be able to come back and play and he didn't. So recently, we announced Jeff our new guitar player and a lot of people are acting like this is new and it's funny because I'm like, “Brian has not played in this band for three years--four years.” I'm like, “He has been out of the game for a very long time.” We had James Love playing guitar for a while and now Jeff [Tuttle]. I think a lot of kids even thought James was Brian because we just never officially made an announcement that Brian wasn't playing with us anymore and unfortunately he's just kind of moved on and isn't able to play at the ability that he was. So he's living in Virginia and he works and that's where he's from, and where his friends are from. So I don't get to see him very often. But, you know, I think he' doing OK.

Ahmad: How's it going with Jeff [Tuttle] now?

Ben: Things are good.

Ahmad: Is he going to contribute, assuming that he'll be around, for the
new Dillinger album?

Ben: Well, I mean, I don't know. I never really thought about it. The truth is that, you know, I don't know. Right now it's pretty clear that the main core of the band at this point is myself, Greg and Liam, you know? Because we're the ones that have been here. Right now, I feel that there's a kind of a... In the past there was issues with... You know, it sucked not having Brian and Chris around for this record, but at the same time it made things hard for me. It put a lot of weight on my shoulders. But at the same time that weight has always been good for this band. When we did Calculating Infinity our guitar player had to quit and our bass player was paralyzed and I was pretty much stuck with the weight of recording all the instruments and writing all the songs and everything, and I thought that pressure was good. ‘Cause I just know as a person when that weights on my shoulders I won't lose. I refuse to lose. And that's part of what's driven this band.

The attitude of everyone in this band is to be that competitive. So when we did Ire Works, there was a similar vibe with what was going on with Calculating, it was like “Oh my god, how are we going to move forward?”, “How are we going to do this?” and I thought it was a good thing, a good pressure. So, I know that not having to compromise my creativity too much with other guys in the band, although it sucked and there was a lot of weight on me and I missed having that interaction and I think in one way it was good because I just got to focus on my vision and, you know, make a record, and allow the other guys to add their influence to my direction, you know what I mean? As opposed to having a bunch of guys arguing over this and that and whatever. Right now we're happy with the way the creative situation is. But Jeff's a great guitar player and his other bands were really cool so I'm sure he'll contribute creatively in someway. I just don't know how yet.

III. The “Radiohead of Metalcore”: Silly Genre Terms and Old Media

Ahmad: On that note on Ire Works, I read some review where they were
talking about how you're the “Radiohead of metalcore” [Editors note: Ahmad is referring to the review of Ire Works by All Music Guide, where they state that “If DEP aren't careful and continue down this innovative path, they could easily be labeled the Radiohead of metalcore”]

Ben: [Laughs]

Ahmad: First, i don't even think you're metalcore, so alright... but--

Ben: --That’s such a funny word

Ahmad: Is that even still a genre? Like the last metalcore band I heard
was Atreyu and I was like 12.

Ben: I understand the term. I think there is some relevance to the term. There are bands out there that are not hardcore and they're not metal straight up, they're kind of influenced by both. So I understand the amalgamation of the words ‘metal’ ‘core’, you know? I definitely do. But I just associate so much bad music with it.

Ahmad: As do I.

Ben: It's just unfortunate that the term itself just sounds silly because you associate it with so much horrible music.

Ahmad: Speaking of that actually, metalcore.. a lot of people refer to you as Mathcore. Is that as silly to you as it is to, maybe, me?

Ben: We really have magazines to blame for this shit. Because people who review records and people who write articles have to compare you to something. They have no real creativity. It's real easy to just compare you to things that came before you. And I think personally like magazines are pretty horrible, and I'm really getting sick of them and I think they ruin music and ruin art and they judge bands on the wrong things most of the time. And they think people who review CDs think they're more important than somebody, some kid. They think their opinion means more because they somehow whistled their way into a magazine. I don't know man, I just can't take any of it really seriously. I care more about what like some fan or some kid thinks of us then how somebody labels it, labels our music or labels other bands or compares us...

I read everyday some band and it says "If you like this band...", you know? "If you like DEP, check out this band" or, you know, "it sounds like DEP" or something like that.

Ahmad: I've done that. I've looked at those bands that are supposed to sound like you and they don't. And they do this because that's what they want you to listen to.

Ben: Yeah, I mean, I just find that if it's easily compared then it's usually not very good.

Ahmad: That kind of media, is dying I would think. With iTunes and bands like NIN and Radiohead, what do you guys think you're going to do in the next 4-5 years? Are you going to self-release your album?

Ben: You mean business wise? In that respect?

Ahmad: Yeah, something like a Radiohead or NIN.

Ben: Yeah, well I definitely think that's pretty much the future. I think that record sales don't really mean anything anymore. I mean, our record is not selling that great, like scanwise, it's not the biggest selling record right now, but we're twice the size a band right now. We're playing in Europe and we're selling out some shit fuck town in the middle of Germany that no-one's even heard of and there's like a thousand kids there. I mean, I know bands that couldn't do that that have sold 3 times as many records as us. You know what I mean? And it's been really weird because we've never been a bigger band then we are now. Our record doesn't seem to scan like a trillion records, and it's obvious that we're an example of the new future, of the new media, the new band, whatever you want to call it. How things are really doesn't matter. And we've also got a lot of smarter fans than a lot of other bands so they're more likely to download your music and find it in other ways and copy it and trade and things like that. So in one respect, I'm kind of proud of that. And in the other respect it makes things hard for us on a business front because people still judge the relevance of your band by things like SoundScan. There's an interview in Revovler -- an article in Revolver about us. The guy spent seriously like 6 months writing this fucking thing. And they put us as their number two record of the year, yet they're still like Shadow's Fall on the cover every day or something, you know what I mean? Like the fact is that we didn't SoundScan as many records as another band so they'll put us as their number 2 record of the year and they'll say that our record was the greatest record ever and this and that and whatever but like the whole article's about how surprisingly we haven't SoundScanned a shit-tonne of records. And that's pretty hard.

Ahmad: You'd think that they'd understand that it's 2008 and things are completely different than 1998 when Limp Bizkit sold however as many records.

Ben: Well, you know. The fact is that that doesn't determine your relevance or how important you are anymore. And that's just clear. Bands like NIN were selling 10 million records every time are selling 600 000 records now. I mean 600 000 records or something, you know, a NIN record selling, but they still fill stadiums. It just doesn't fucking matter. And again, that's just another problem where people just refuse to catch up to the times. They're still trying to hang on and refuse to realise that while OK we're part of the problem but we refuse to adapt to it, you know? I'm just going to continue to ignore it, you know?

And record labels are the same. So we got record labels talking to us every day. We're just about--pretty much--out of our deal with Relapse right now and I'm not saying that we're not going to be doing anything more with them but the fact is that we are open to talk to other labels and stuff and I really don't even listen to them that much. I really don't listen a lot. They'll talk to me and they call me. I respect them and what they do and I brainstorm with them. I talk possibilities, but it doesn't really excite me. I don't really care. We're out here touring, we're being a real band and we're playing shows and we're supporting our record and every day something new happens, whether it's the NIN thing or the Radiohead thing or whatever, so I know that when we're ready to release another record I think the answer will be apparent of how we should do it. And it may be with a label, it may not be with a label. It may be with corporate sponsorship or something so that everyone can have it for free. I don't know. Either way. I just think that there's new ways of doing things and it's clear. And I think that when we're ready to put out another record it will be clear of what’s the right way to do it.

IV. New DVD in the works.

Ahmad: So your contract with Relapse is almost finished, I suppose?

Ben: Yeah

Ahmad: I think I read somewhere that you had to do a DVD?

Ben: Yeah, we're going to be doing one more video with them.

Ahmad: Is it going to be a documentary or...

Ben: Well, it's going to be mostly about the earlier years of the band with Dimitri. And it's interesting because a lot of people are excited to see some of that early footage. Like most of the people that are in the band now saw us and they never heard of us then when we had Dimitri [Minakakis]and Adam [Doll] and all those other guys in the band. And I just remember it being such a crazy time. I was just playing in basements, us playing in VFW halls and stuff. And like I said, not really playing that much notes, not being very good at guitar and... you know what I mean? And then I look at some of the old footage thinking it's going to be the most insane thing ever, you know? And we're like so much crazier now. I mean, I watch it and I'm like, “Wow”. But for back then bands weren't really that active on stage. Bands weren't really doing anything exciting or playing anything most different so I guess at the time it was something different but now I watch it and it's like, “My, God”. It's funny because it's 11 years later and I'm 11 years older and we have so much more fire and so much more passion now then we did then and that's kind of what's so exciting to me about looking at that old footage. Not nostalgia looking back and being "that was so awesome" but the fact that we've come this far and we still have this fire and this energy. It's growing and gotten crazier and more intense.

Ahmad: How much footage do you have of the old days?

Ben: We've got a lot. We've got like kids who back in the day we put something out on our MySpace, on our website like, “if you have old footage let us know send it in”. We've got a decent amount. The hard part is going through it and finding stuff that we think is cool to look at. It's all interesting, you know? There's going to be some interviews with Adam and Dimitri and some of the other guys in the band and people who are around the band and friends and people who were just working with the band at the time, and so it's going to be cool. I think it's going to be really interesting.

Ahmad: You guys don't make many music videos, so do you feel that the music video is dead?

Ben: I don't. I think it's more important than ever but mostly for online purposes, you know? Obviously there aren't a whole lot of platforms for videos now days considering most of the video channels just play TV shows and stuff like that. But I think it's just as important because there are so many different mediums, different platforms for video play whether it be like YouTube or whatever. You know, we were away for... We're in Europe right now. We haven't been in Europe for over 3 years. And I thought coming here I was like, “I hope we're at least the same size as we were three years ago, but it's not likely since we've been gone so long.” And we're 3 times as big. Like we're playing places in Sweden where there were like 40 people last time and now it's like packed to the back of the wall. And kids are flipping out. And I'm like, “How could that happen?”, it's not like we signed to some other label and there's tons more promotion and it's not like... you know? It's like what could it be? And the only thing I can attribute it to is things like YouTube and MySpace and the web and people spreading the word and people seeing videos of us in NY or Philly, you know and things like that. Because now some kid in Germany who used to look at us like we had four heads is pretty much---dresses, looks, and acts just like someone from Philly or NY or LA. You know, they're flipping out, they're like... It's like the same show. The world has just melted together, you know? And so I think things like videos, whether it’s live videos or its music videos, professional music videos or whatever are just as important if not more important than ever because there are so many more ways people can see them and access them and just experience them.

IV. Musical Influences: “I feel like those guys are just completely thinking outside the box always and they really are creative and changing things up and trying new things is a huge part of what they do as opposed to being stuck to some border line and stuck to some genre.”

Ahmad: I have a couple more questions and then I'm assuming you have to go because I think I heard you say--

Ben: --Yeah, they're sound checking without me right now. [Laughs]

Ahmad: I was always kind of interested, because I don't know the answer to this, but what are your favorite musicians, bands, that kind of stuff, because I never read anything about that.

Ben: Ah, favorite musicians.... I mean, guitar wise I've always liked fusion guys and anything from someone like Slash to Stevie Ray Vaughn, to John McLaughlin from Mahavishnu Orchestra, to Robert Fripp from King Crimson--all those guys have influenced me. I've never been into a whole lot of the glam metal shred guitar players like Yngwie Malmsteen, or anything like that, but I can't say that I... You know, I just like eclectic song writers a lot. Like people like Sting and even like, I listen to things like Fiona Apple a lot and you know. And electronic music and IDM music has a huge influence on me because I feel like those guys are just completely thinking outside the box always and they really are creative and changing things up and trying new things is a huge part of what they do as opposed to being stuck to some borderline and stuck to some genre. That's always something we've tried to stay away from, being stuck into some box and as you can tell by just that diversity in our music now. Yeah, so I mean those kind of eccletic song writers are things I listen to more than just a specific musician or anything like that. I'll listen to like Peter Gabriel or something and just listen to all the layers of sound and things going on and just really appreciate the way they've approached it.

Ahmad: Since you're from NJ and so am I, how is it? Because Greg's from Baltimore and Liam's from Philly, and Jeff's from Michigan, and Gil's from LA. I've met people from those places and it's sometimes hard for me to get along with them. So for you, is it by chance or how does that work out, because I'm assuming that you have a musical vibe; what's different?

Ben: Well I can't say that they're... Definitely Detroit and Baltimore and NJ and Philly do have a lot more in common than NJ and like Hollywood, that's for sure. [Laughs] And although we all come from different places to some degree... You know Greg straight up comes from the ghetto of Baltimore and yeah, I mean he literally grew up and has been shot at, you know things like that? [Laughs] And you know, I come from the suburbs from pretty much where the misfits and stuff come from and like a lot of suburban shit . You know, we come from the land of MCR [My Chemical Romance] and stuff like that. [Laughs]

Ahmad: I'm always proud to tell people that NJ has given birth to MCR and --

Ben: There you go, and The Boss [Bruce Springsteen]!

Ahmad: The Boss! I was going to say that.

Ben: It's definitely a bit weird once since we've gotten along so great with Gil when we first met him. There are so many similarities with our personalities and me and him get along really good because we're both business minded and really into the music side of things, which is rare to be into both sides of it so much. So me and him get along really well. We just sit there and talk business. He'll just sit there and ask me for a shit-tonne of money and I'll be, “No!” and then we'll go out and have an ice-cream sundae together. Whereas other people, that relationship is very difficult. But there's definitely some weird things like we aren't used to... Like he came from Hollywood where bands don't really tour a great deal. They kind of just spawn and play shows and try to get signed, you know? Most bands from Hollywood and Orange County and those places get signed before they even tour, you know. System of the Down's first tour, I remember, they played LA a tonne of times, they got signed, did a record deal and went on a tour with Slayer. That was their first tour and that's the hollywood scene. So yeah, it was definitely a little bit weird at first because we came from different places, but really quickly assimilated once they're touring with us and are seeing what it's all about. It's not about this or that or I did session work with this guy or I did session work with that guy it's about coming out and kicking ass every night, night after night and just as a unit. And it was really quick that we all just kind of assimilated. And that's what happens with Dillinger, when people join the band they just kind of mold into this monster, you know. And we're all very very, especially now, (and it's weird now that Chris isn't in the band) we're seriously like all on the same page. We're all driven towards the same goals every night and it's interesting to see how powerful that is. Because in the past we were all very competitive, we were all very aggressive, but it was more an individual thing. But now, when something comes together as a unit it comes out at you with a sharp point instead of a blunt object coming at you, you know? We're all focussed towards the same thing. It's just so much more powerful.

Ahmad and Ben at a DEP Show (Doylestown, Pennsylvania Dec 15, 2007)

Raw audio:

(Note: it's pretty hard to hear the audio in quite a few sections, so if you've skipped the transcript, I'd advise you to read that either before you listen to the audio or in conjunction with the audio).



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